Welcome

[Ben RosenthalKeymaster]

Glad to hear it!

[MATT TParticipant]

Thanks! This really helps and makes a lot of sense. I appreciate you taking the time to explain it.

[MATT TParticipant]

If you eventually wanted to push this into a full-time gig would you recommend starting off with no players cards?

[Ben RosenthalKeymaster]

In general, I’d recommend using a players card as little as possible. I’d pretty much only use it for games in the orange-red categories unless I’m confident the casino isn’t tracking anything. If you’re at a casino you absolutely cannot afford to get kicked out of, I wouldn’t use the card at all.

Knock on wood, I haven’t been given the boot from a place such as MGM, which I know tracks player logs. But I still use my card there, as it’s beneficial to get comped rooms, food, and free play when I travel. There, in particular, I’m only using the card for long-run games.

Not that I’d recommend gambling on non-advantage play stuff, but if you ever are doing that or you’re with someone where you can use your card, that’s ideal to mix in. But I also wouldn’t punt my own money just to hopefully get a casino off the scent.

I’m on my phone, but I know I have at least one blog entry on tips to avoid detection. I’ll link that shortly.

[Ben RosenthalKeymaster]

Tips To Avoid Detection

I have a few others related to this in the “Random Slot Thoughts” section in the blogs. If you have time, those might be worth checking out as well.

[MATT TParticipant]

Has anyone tried AP slot play as a team, similar to a blackjack team? It seems like working together could help cover more casinos, find more opportunities, and increase overall EV. Curious if anyone has tried this and how well it worked?

[Ben RosenthalKeymaster]

You’ll see teams of Chinese folks do this at plenty of casinos. Some of them are trying to “build” multiple players cards at multiple casinos and rack up as much free play and other perks as they can. It’s illegal but potentially lucrative.

I’ve gone slotting with friends before, but nothing like what some of these guys do. It can be useful in scouting big must-hits, but personally, I don’t find it all that beneficial most times (other than a fun social experience).

You’re cutting your money in half, essentially. I also like to “work” oddball hours and go at my own pace.

It can useful if you want to sell a dangerous play. For instance, if I find $50 Phoenix Link plays, I’m often looking to sell some of that kind of action to trusted friends, as I generally just want the comps and don’t want that kind of variance in my life.

Along the same lines, sometimes people are broke but know at least something about advantage slots. You’ll see this a lot in places like Vegas. They’ll then try to sell some of these finds to other APs. This isn’t exactly what you’re asking, but I figured I’d mention it.

Of course, if you do involve friends and you want to split things up (casinos, winnings, losses), you need to have total trust. Then there’s the whole, “I was out for 10 hours today; you were only out for five hours. Why am I giving you half of my profit?” It can get a bit messy.

[King of HeartsParticipant]

On Ben Rosenthal said

You’ll see teams of Chinese folks do this at plenty of casinos. Some of them are trying to “build” multiple players cards at multiple casinos and rack up as much free play and other perks as they can. It’s illegal but potentially lucrative.

Ah, someone finally mentioned the Chinese Crew. Yeah, these guys are everywhere in Vegas, although in my experience, they tend to focus mostly on downtown and the Strip. The rumor is that some boss ropes them into it in exchange for helping them come to the United States. I don’t know how true that is, but they are annoying af. I’ve also seen many of them play at entry points that are just a little bit too low for me and what is recommended on this site. They try to steal plays, too; I’ve had at least one argument with their members about being first to a play. Watch out for these folks.

[Ben RosenthalKeymaster]

I’ve heard rumors like that, but who knows. That would be a fascinating story if there’s any truth to it.

As far as low entry points, often that’s because of card building and the strong preference to keep comps up (rooms, free play, food). One such guy got busted at my local casino with like 30 different players card on him. Of course, there’s no way he’s finding legitimate plays to keep 30 cards satiated.

I’ve also seen plenty of solid, courteous folks who fit this description, so I wouldn’t loop every person into this “watch out,” category, but it’s worth being mindful of. These folks (men and women) also often outwork the competition, putting in obscene hours each week.

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