Return to Player

[Overtim3dParticipant]

Besides having someone on the inside, how can I find or guesstimate a RTP for any given machine? I have often wondered if its written somewhere on the inside of the machine. There have been several instances where I had a slot tech open one in front of me and if I just knew where to look maybe I could spot such a number.

[Ben RosenthalKeymaster]

That’s a good question. I’ve heard of some folks saying it will sometimes pop up on the screen in such instances, but I’ve never actively looked for that myself (I should).

I’ll ask around a bit and get back to you.

[MerlinsghostParticipant]

Slot machines ard just computers, and the game is software (with software settings)   There is nothing physically inside or outside the cabinet that shows RTP, it is all controlled in the software settings.

[Ben RosenthalKeymaster]

This isn’t a concrete answer or anything, but one friend said he once saw the RTP for Phoenix Link on the screen when someone was fixing the machine. He said it showed 86-92.5, with the implication that the higher denoms returned a better percentage.

But that’s just one casino, and he didn’t specify where on the machine he saw this. So I guess the takeaway would be to pay attention if you see someone working on a machine, as there’s apparently a chance this will show up somewhere.

[Short Coin CharlieParticipant]

This is a long-ish background to a short question I have –

Back when I was concentrating mostly on Poker, I was concerned at first about things that turned out to be small potatoes. As an example, I was worried that the Limit Hold’em games I was playing in might never be beatable if the rake was too high. I was asking a lot of questions about rake when there were far more important things to think about. And I was thinking there was an absolute number (of rake) where games could and could not be beaten. Then one day the light bulb went on over my head. Any rake structure you might encounter in a Limit game can be overcome if there are one or two bad players who are playing too many hands. At a minimum, one of the two bad players will end up paying the rake for whoever wins the pot on every hand. So if you can beat the other seven players, you’re home free.

In a similar vein, I’m having a hard time understanding how knowing the RTP at a given casino is going to help me to say, play Buffalo Diamond. If my Slot Slayers go number for Buffalo Diamond is 38 (at 75c), I might hold out for a higher meter at McCarran Airport or anywhere else I might safely assume that the house is a tight with the RTP. But even that would be winging it, because I just don’t see how to make a precise adjustment to what is given as a precise number (i.e., 38 or better for Buffalo Diamond).

Many of the plays we find are simply not so borderline that playing in a stingy joint (or not) simply isn’t going to factor into my go/no-go decision. If that same Buffalo Diamond meter is 58 instead of 38, I would gladly push Blue Haired Myrtle off her stool so I can take over…um, that is, I would be willing to play regardless of the house RTP. That is to say, if it’s a borderline play at a regular joint, you’re not earning much if you play it (and you’re not giving up much if you don’t), and you’re not getting or giving up much at a low-RTP casino either. But if it’s a big play, it’s going to be a play regardless of where you find it. 

The one place I think it might be helpful to have some idea of a casino’s overall RTP is when fine-tuning the settings in the Slot Slayers MHB calculator. But other than that, I’m just not too concerned with trying to find out the RTP where I’m playing.

Could someone please share if there is something I’m overlooking with this attitude? Thanks!

[Ben RosenthalKeymaster]

I would argue that rake isn’t small potatoes in poker, but I get your point.

I agree with the overall sentiment. It often is “winging it” if you’re actively trying to adjust your starting points on certain games. Buffalo Diamond is a good example (poor Myrtle). Realistically, unless I’m in the airport (how often is that?) or on a cruise ship, it’s rare that I’d try to adjust my starting points as I’m checking machines. Am I really going to turn down a 14 on Magic Treasures if I think that maybe I’m at a place with a bad RTP? Probably not. Even a cruise ship…I’m often ripping a 14 anyway, especially if I want to show action. That’s just one game, but hopefully that makes sense.

Maybe the most disciplined slot hustler out there does do this. I’d be lying if I said I do with any regularity.

But I’m glad you mentioned must-hits and the calculator. For something like that, where you could be in for heaps of money, you wouldn’t want to set the RTP too liberally in the calculator if you have no idea what the RTP is.

[Ben RosenthalKeymaster]

I’d add that where I am sometimes will influence my decision on volatile games from a comp perspective. Let’s use that Buffalo Diamond example again.

Suppose I’m in some middle-of-nowhere casino that I don’t plan on coming back to a whole lot. I don’t care if I spin enough on BD to get comped a free bacon, egg, and cheese at Dunkin’ Donuts. I see a 90 blue on the $1.60 bet. If I don’t feel like smashing that spin button for 45 minutes of pain, maybe I don’t bother with it.

But let’s say I’m at Atlantis in the Bahamas and I really want to show action. I see an 83 blue on a $1.60 bet. I may be compelled to play.

I know some people really don’t like lowering their minimums for volatile games, and if you fall in that category, I can respect it. But I think sometimes there can be some nuance to it.

[Short Coin CharlieParticipant]

I’m with you on the rake not being trivial – thinking back to my Limit Hold’em days, if given the choice of paying $4 in rake or $6 in rake on a $50 pot, I would much prefer to pay $4.

But when my choices were between playing in a bad game with good rake, or a good game with bad rake, I was willing to pay Mr. Mirage a couple bucks extra on my pots for the privilege of playing in a carpet joint with a good game.

[FutzParticipant]

This photo was supposedly taken at Red Rock a few months ago. It’s some sort of attendant diagnostic screen.

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